From jon at radscan.com  Mon Sep  4 14:08:38 2000
From: jon at radscan.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 14:08:38 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] NAS 1.4.1 is now available.
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.4.21.0009041401030.8179-100000@nova>



	NAS 1.4.1 is now available. The only change from 1.4, aside
from minor documentation changes, is a patch to the sun server by
Charles Levert that works around the 'late SIGPOLL' problem seen on
some Sun hardware. If you are using the Sun server and suffer frequent
dropouts, even though you have the CPU horsepower available, check out
this version to see if it helps. If none of the above applies to you,
then you do not need to upgrade from 1.4.
	
	It can be found at:

	http://radscan.com/nas/nas-1.4.1.src.tar.gz


	Here's the HISTORY extract:

Version 1.4.1 9/4/2000:

        - this release is really only neccessary if you are using the
          NAS server on a Sun, and have frequent dropouts.  

        - fix to the sun server from Charles Levert correcting a Sun
          problem with 'late SIGPOLLS'.

        - minor documentation fixes - new mailing list archive
          location, etc.


-- 
Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.




From knan at mo.himolde.no  Sat Sep  9 21:38:14 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (knan at mo.himolde.no)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 05:38:14 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] libaudiooss 0.9.2
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009100522080.19612-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

Greetings.

I just uploaded a new version of libaudiooss, the library that fools OSS
programs into thinking your NAS server is just another soundcard. At
least, that's the ideal.

And in 0.9.2, that ideal is several steps closer.

* RealPlayer and its command-line alter-ego trplayer works now.

* SDL apps like plaympeg from Loki software's SMPEG library works now.

* TiMidity++ works again.

* nasd works. So now I can run another nasd on top of this lib, and then
   do another LD_PRELOAD / AUDIOSERVER stunt in another terminal and thus
   route sound through two nasd's and two instances of this lib before it
   reaches the speakers. Granted, the sound _does_ become a little choppy,
   but it works :)

In general, almost all simple OSS output-only programs work. MMAP-mode /
recording / full-duplex / AC-3 output does not work.

Download at: http://www.mo.himolde.no/~knan/linux.html

Test, have fun, find ( & preferably fix ) bugs :-)

To the people that have contacted me about a Solaris version: where did
you go?

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet






From harry.muscle at usa.net  Tue Sep 12 09:20:35 2000
From: harry.muscle at usa.net (Arek Stegienko)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:20:35 -0400
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
Message-ID: <008901c01ccd$01ea9c80$0300000a@nbdt02703>

I'm thinking of writing the first Win9X NAS Server.  I've got a bit of multimedia programming experience, so there shouldn't be any problem with the audio side, however, I've never dealt with network programming.  Therefore I was wondering if there's anyone out there that could make things easier for me by providing me with a simple layout of how the client and server communicate.  In other words a clear easy to understand list of what the client sends, how the server responds, etc.  I know that there's a protocol.txt file distributed with the current version of NAS, but I was hoping there's something simpler.  A simplified look at exactly what goes on from the point where the client tries to connect to the point where it starts to stream the audio info.  This way I won't have to go through the other server code trying to decipher things.  Thanks for any help.

Arek

P.S.  I don't currently subscribe to this mailing list so either just e-mail with the info, or post a reply and I'll be checking back soon.
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From knan at mo.himolde.no  Tue Sep 12 15:46:59 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:46:59 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <008901c01ccd$01ea9c80$0300000a@nbdt02703>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009122340490.18372-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Arek Stegienko wrote:
>how the client and server communicate.  In other words a clear easy to
>understand list of what the client sends, how the server responds,
>etc.  I know that there's a protocol.txt file distributed with the
>current version of NAS, but I was hoping there's something simpler.  A
>simplified look at exactly what goes on from the point where the client
>tries to connect to the point where it starts to stream the audio
>info. 

You're not the only one that would like something like that to exist. The
protocol.txt explains only data types, not the connection procedure or
what is sent when. As I'm considering writing a NAS server for AmigaOS
from scratch, not necessarily in C even, when some software upgrades and a
big fat rom kernel reference manual finally arrives, this would help my
efforts as well.

Any helpful gurus around here? :-)

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



From mbardiaux at peaktime.be  Wed Sep 13 01:51:31 2000
From: mbardiaux at peaktime.be (Michel Bardiaux)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:51:31 +0200
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009122340490.18372-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>
Message-ID: <39BF3203.905ECE58@peaktime.be>

Erik Inge Bols? wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Arek Stegienko wrote:
> >how the client and server communicate.  In other words a clear easy to
> >understand list of what the client sends, how the server responds,
> >etc.  I know that there's a protocol.txt file distributed with the
> >current version of NAS, but I was hoping there's something simpler.  A
> >simplified look at exactly what goes on from the point where the client
> >tries to connect to the point where it starts to stream the audio
> >info.
> 
> You're not the only one that would like something like that to exist. The
> protocol.txt explains only data types, not the connection procedure or
> what is sent when. As I'm considering writing a NAS server for AmigaOS
> from scratch, not necessarily in C even, when some software upgrades and a
> big fat rom kernel reference manual finally arrives, this would help my
> efforts as well.
> 
> Any helpful gurus around here? :-)
> 
> --
> Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
>               | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet

With Cygnus porting XFree4 to WinXX, wouldn't it be better to consider a
'straight' port of NAS to WinXX, and maybe an integration of NAS *in*
XFree? Multiple implementation trees are not necessarily a bad thing -
when a protocol is an RFC or even a de facto standard. But a the stage
NAS is now, IMHO multiple implementations would be a problem. The
license is certainly not so restrictive that a rewrite from scratch
might be needed!

-- 
Michel Bardiaux
Peaktime Belgium S.A.  Rue Margot, 37  B-1457 Nil St Vincent
Tel : +32 10 65.44.15  Fax : +32 10 65.44.10


From jon at radscan.com  Thu Sep 14 21:28:12 2000
From: jon at radscan.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:28:12 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009122340490.18372-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.4.21.0009142123160.4912-100000@nova>

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:

> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:46:59 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Erik Inge Bols? <knan at mo.himolde.no>
> To: Arek Stegienko <harry.muscle at usa.net>
> Cc: nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
[...]

> >etc.  I know that there's a protocol.txt file distributed with the
> >current version of NAS, but I was hoping there's something simpler.  A
> >simplified look at exactly what goes on from the point where the client
> >tries to connect to the point where it starts to stream the audio
> >info. 
> 
> You're not the only one that would like something like that to exist. The
> protocol.txt explains only data types, not the connection procedure or
> what is sent when. As I'm considering writing a NAS server for AmigaOS
> from scratch, not necessarily in C even, when some software upgrades and a
> big fat rom kernel reference manual finally arrives, this would help my
> efforts as well.
> 

	Unfortunately there is no such document... The ones who could've
written it (the original authors) don't seem to be around anymore.  As
they suggest in the README 'use the source'.  Sorry I can't offer anymore
than that.  You will probably just have to slug through the server code.  
It's modeled on the X11 display server, so if you are familiar with that,
then this shouldn't be too hard ;-)  I suspect that alot of people would
like to see a windows port...


-- 
Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.




From jon at radscan.com  Thu Sep 14 21:49:52 2000
From: jon at radscan.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:49:52 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <39BF3203.905ECE58@peaktime.be>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.4.21.0009142128230.4912-100000@nova>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Michel Bardiaux wrote:

> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:51:31 +0200
> From: Michel Bardiaux <mbardiaux at peaktime.be>
> To: nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> 
> Erik Inge Bols? wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Arek Stegienko wrote:
> > >how the client and server communicate.  In other words a clear easy to
[...]

> 
> With Cygnus porting XFree4 to WinXX, wouldn't it be better to consider a
> 'straight' port of NAS to WinXX, and maybe an integration of NAS *in*
> XFree? Multiple implementation trees are not necessarily a bad thing -
> when a protocol is an RFC or even a de facto standard. But a the stage
> NAS is now, IMHO multiple implementations would be a problem. The
> license is certainly not so restrictive that a rewrite from scratch
> might be needed!
> 

	Well a straight port of the NAS server to windows is probably the
best way to do it, but I don't see how trying to stick it in the Xfree
tree would do anything useful.  I suspect they are not interested in doing
the port to winxx for us ;-)

	If the Xfree server and X11 environment could be ported to winxx,
then I think a straight NAS port would be made alot easier, since much of
the code dealing with network setup and teardown would have to be done for
the xf server as well, and you would then have a psuedo-guide to NAS...  
I have 0 windows programming experience so I have no idea what the real
effort of a port would entail.  


-- 
Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.




From mbardiaux at peaktime.be  Fri Sep 15 03:04:14 2000
From: mbardiaux at peaktime.be (Michel Bardiaux)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:04:14 +0200
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
References: <Pine.UW2.4.21.0009142128230.4912-100000@nova>
Message-ID: <39C1E60E.92D26BD1@peaktime.be>

Jon Trulson wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Michel Bardiaux wrote:
> 
> >
> > With Cygnus porting XFree4 to WinXX, wouldn't it be better to consider a
> > 'straight' port of NAS to WinXX, and maybe an integration of NAS *in*
> > XFree? Multiple implementation trees are not necessarily a bad thing -
> > when a protocol is an RFC or even a de facto standard. But a the stage
> > NAS is now, IMHO multiple implementations would be a problem. The
> > license is certainly not so restrictive that a rewrite from scratch
> > might be needed!
> >
> 
>         Well a straight port of the NAS server to windows is probably the
> best way to do it, but I don't see how trying to stick it in the Xfree
> tree would do anything useful.  I suspect they are not interested in doing
> the port to winxx for us ;-)

On the features side: I think it is very important that time be
synchronized between audio and graphics streams, and that requires
cooperation between X and NAS.

On the implementation side: one would make the economy of duplicating
all the 'logistic' work already done for XFree4 (HOWTO install cygnus,
HOWTO build the server, install it, etc)

It is probably too soon to try and push NAS as 'the' or even 'the best'
standard for network audio; but it is a chicken-and-egg case: lack of
acceptance because lack of a server on one important platform! But the
integration could be done as an X-Extension (and I mean on all
platforms! After all, if XFree can cope with umpteen different graphics
boards, sound should not be much more difficult!)
> 
>         If the Xfree server and X11 environment could be ported to winxx,

According to http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/xfree/ it has *already*
been done.

> then I think a straight NAS port would be made alot easier, since much of
> the code dealing with network setup and teardown would have to be done for
> the xf server as well, and you would then have a psuedo-guide to NAS...
> I have 0 windows programming experience so I have no idea what the real
> effort of a port would entail.

My point is: one could start on Linux rather; make NAS an X extension on
a *non-WIN* platform (so no problems with the lack of Windows
experience). *Then* in the context of cygwin XFree, the port to Windows
would only :-) involve finding the right Win32 APIs to call (there are
so many, it is very likely there are some that match well what NAS
needs). I think this road offers better hope than trying independently
from Cygwin and X to bend the architecture of the NAS server into
something suitable for Windows.


> --
> Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
> ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
> PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
> #include <std/disclaimer.h>
> You talk like a Ferengi.

I *know* what that means! NuqNEH!

-- 
Michel Bardiaux
Peaktime Belgium S.A.  Rue Margot, 37  B-1457 Nil St Vincent
Tel : +32 10 65.44.15  Fax : +32 10 65.44.10


From knan at mo.himolde.no  Fri Sep 15 03:48:40 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:48:40 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <39C1E60E.92D26BD1@peaktime.be>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009151139160.16808-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Michel Bardiaux wrote:
>>         Well a straight port of the NAS server to windows is probably the
>> best way to do it, but I don't see how trying to stick it in the Xfree
>> tree would do anything useful.  I suspect they are not interested in doing
>> the port to winxx for us ;-)
>
>On the features side: I think it is very important that time be
>synchronized between audio and graphics streams, and that requires
>cooperation between X and NAS.

Indeed. Wasn't there once something called a X synchronization
extension API? Or was it only a proposal that was silently forgotten in
the mists of time?

>It is probably too soon to try and push NAS as 'the' or even 'the best'
>standard for network audio; but it is a chicken-and-egg case: lack of
>acceptance because lack of a server on one important platform!

ESD has a head start here, a brave soul is reimplementing it in Java, on
top of the Java Sound API. Search around on freshmeat, you'll find it
there.

>But the
>integration could be done as an X-Extension (and I mean on all
>platforms! After all, if XFree can cope with umpteen different graphics
>boards, sound should not be much more difficult!)

I'm not sure I agree. "Do one thing, and do it well..."

>>         If the Xfree server and X11 environment could be ported to winxx,
>
>According to http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/xfree/ it has *already*
>been done.

A very encouraging report indeed!

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



From jon at xig.com  Fri Sep 15 09:59:01 2000
From: jon at xig.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:59:01 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <39C1E60E.92D26BD1@peaktime.be>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009150930300.5371-100000@landru.xig.com>

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Michel Bardiaux wrote:

> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:04:14 +0200
> From: Michel Bardiaux <mbardiaux at peaktime.be>
> To: jon at radscan.com, nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> 
> Jon Trulson wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Michel Bardiaux wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > With Cygnus porting XFree4 to WinXX, wouldn't it be better to consider a
> > > 'straight' port of NAS to WinXX, and maybe an integration of NAS *in*
> > > XFree? Multiple implementation trees are not necessarily a bad thing -
> > > when a protocol is an RFC or even a de facto standard. But a the stage
> > > NAS is now, IMHO multiple implementations would be a problem. The
> > > license is certainly not so restrictive that a rewrite from scratch
> > > might be needed!
> > >
> > 
> >         Well a straight port of the NAS server to windows is probably the
> > best way to do it, but I don't see how trying to stick it in the Xfree
> > tree would do anything useful.  I suspect they are not interested in doing
> > the port to winxx for us ;-)
> 
> On the features side: I think it is very important that time be
> synchronized between audio and graphics streams, and that requires
> cooperation between X and NAS.
> 

	Yes... probably need to set NAS up so it can use the XSYNC
extension.

> On the implementation side: one would make the economy of duplicating
> all the 'logistic' work already done for XFree4 (HOWTO install cygnus,
> HOWTO build the server, install it, etc)
> 
> It is probably too soon to try and push NAS as 'the' or even 'the best'
> standard for network audio; but it is a chicken-and-egg case: lack of
> acceptance because lack of a server on one important platform! But the
> integration could be done as an X-Extension (and I mean on all
> platforms! After all, if XFree can cope with umpteen different graphics
> boards, sound should not be much more difficult!)


	Well, I like NAS because it doesn't depend on the
platform.  Or the Xserver (if you even have one running).  Other
sound servers are out there, but none of them will run on my unixware,
linux, and HPUX machines all at the same time.  That's why I dig NAS -
it's platform/OS independent, and it works well.  

> > 
> >         If the Xfree server and X11 environment could be ported to winxx,
> 
> According to http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/xfree/ it has *already*
> been done.
> 

	Well, then that makes the job quite a bit easier I would think.  
Has anybody tried it?  Does it work well?  I notice the libs and
environment are supposedly there.  This framework should greatly aid a
port of a NAS server to windows.

> > then I think a straight NAS port would be made alot easier, since much of
> > the code dealing with network setup and teardown would have to be done for
> > the xf server as well, and you would then have a psuedo-guide to NAS...
> > I have 0 windows programming experience so I have no idea what the real
> > effort of a port would entail.
> 
> My point is: one could start on Linux rather; make NAS an X extension on
> a *non-WIN* platform (so no problems with the lack of Windows
> experience). *Then* in the context of cygwin XFree, the port to Windows
> would only :-) involve finding the right Win32 APIs to call (there are
> so many, it is very likely there are some that match well what NAS
> needs). I think this road offers better hope than trying independently
> from Cygwin and X to bend the architecture of the NAS server into
> something suitable for Windows.


	I don't think the architecture would need to get bent ;-) If there
is a good compiler (gcc) and decent X11 environment, and the appropriate
sound interface (DirectX ?) the job is doable.

	Also, a couple of issues here.  First, I don't use Xfree.  I use
Accelerated-X on my linux/unixware platforms.  The HP uses it's own server
(unfortunately).  Second, on both one box at home, and one here in the
office, the box running the NAS server doesn't use X at all.  It doesn't
even have a montior hooked up to it. Just a keyboard, net interface and
speakers.  Tying NAS into X is not a good idea IMHO.  Having NAS *work*
with X (like using XSYNC) would be good though.  What about Sun people. HP
people?  Me running my 3D accelx at home?  Do we require them to use
XF now?  No, I do not want NAS to be tied to an Xserver implementation.  
That seems self defeating to me.  Do one thing, do it well.

	I like the fact that provided you have the sound hardware, you can
run it on a variety of machines and machine architectures.  You only need
an X environment to build it, you do not need it to run.  And while I'm
all for increasing the visibility and use of NAS, binding it to XF as an
extension is certainly not the way to do it. IMO of course.


> You talk like a Ferengi.
> 
> I *know* what that means! NuqNEH!
> 

	;-)

-- 
Jon Trulson    work: mailto:jon at xig.com, home: mailto:jon at radscan.com
Xi Graphics, Inc.  http://www.xig.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <stddisclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.



From jon at xig.com  Fri Sep 15 10:05:45 2000
From: jon at xig.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:05:45 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009151139160.16808-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009150959120.5371-100000@landru.xig.com>

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:

> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:48:40 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Erik Inge Bols? <knan at mo.himolde.no>
> To: Michel Bardiaux <mbardiaux at peaktime.be>
> Cc: jon at radscan.com, nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> 
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Michel Bardiaux wrote:
> >>         Well a straight port of the NAS server to windows is probably the
> >> best way to do it, but I don't see how trying to stick it in the Xfree
> >> tree would do anything useful.  I suspect they are not interested in doing
> >> the port to winxx for us ;-)
> >
> >On the features side: I think it is very important that time be
> >synchronized between audio and graphics streams, and that requires
> >cooperation between X and NAS.
> 
> Indeed. Wasn't there once something called a X synchronization
> extension API? Or was it only a proposal that was silently forgotten in
> the mists of time?
> 

	;-) It's still there.

> >standard for network audio; but it is a chicken-and-egg case: lack of
> >acceptance because lack of a server on one important platform!
> 
> ESD has a head start here, a brave soul is reimplementing it in Java, on
> top of the Java Sound API. Search around on freshmeat, you'll find it
> there.


	A Java sound server?  Interesting...  Is a Java Xserver far
behind? ;-)

> 
> >But the
> >integration could be done as an X-Extension (and I mean on all
> >platforms! After all, if XFree can cope with umpteen different graphics
> >boards, sound should not be much more difficult!)
> 
> I'm not sure I agree. "Do one thing, and do it well..."
>

	Yes!
 
[...]

-- 
Jon Trulson    work: mailto:jon at xig.com, home: mailto:jon at radscan.com
Xi Graphics, Inc.  http://www.xig.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <stddisclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.



From knan at mo.himolde.no  Fri Sep 15 10:19:36 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:19:36 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009150959120.5371-100000@landru.xig.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009151814420.20589-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Jon Trulson wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:
>> Indeed. Wasn't there once something called a X synchronization
>> extension API? Or was it only a proposal that was silently forgotten in
>> the mists of time?
>
>	;-) It's still there.

Really? Where?

>> ESD has a head start here, a brave soul is reimplementing it in Java, on
>> top of the Java Sound API. Search around on freshmeat, you'll find it
>> there.
>
>	A Java sound server?  Interesting...  Is a Java Xserver far
>behind? ;-)

Behind? I think it's ahead :-) ... How about this one: WeirdX
( http://www.jcraft.com/weirdx/ )

Haven't tried it yet, but might be promising?

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



From jon at xig.com  Fri Sep 15 10:21:10 2000
From: jon at xig.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:21:10 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009151814420.20589-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009151017200.7746-100000@landru.xig.com>

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:

> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:19:36 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Erik Inge Bols? <knan at mo.himolde.no>
> To: Jon Trulson <jon at xig.com>
> Cc: Michel Bardiaux <mbardiaux at peaktime.be>, jon at radscan.com, nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> 
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Jon Trulson wrote:
> >On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:
> >> Indeed. Wasn't there once something called a X synchronization
> >> extension API? Or was it only a proposal that was silently forgotten in
> >> the mists of time?
> >
> >	;-) It's still there.
> 
> Really? Where?
> 

[ landru: /proj2 ] xdpyinfo
name of display:    :0.0
version number:    11.0
vendor string:    Xi Graphics, Inc.
vendor release number:    6002
maximum request size:  4194300 bytes
motion buffer size:  256
bitmap unit, bit order, padding:    32, LSBFirst, 32
image byte order:    LSBFirst
number of supported pixmap formats:    8
supported pixmap formats:
    depth 1, bits_per_pixel 1, scanline_pad 32
    depth 4, bits_per_pixel 8, scanline_pad 32
    depth 8, bits_per_pixel 8, scanline_pad 32
    depth 12, bits_per_pixel 16, scanline_pad 32
    depth 15, bits_per_pixel 16, scanline_pad 32
    depth 16, bits_per_pixel 16, scanline_pad 32
    depth 24, bits_per_pixel 32, scanline_pad 32
    depth 32, bits_per_pixel 32, scanline_pad 32
keycode range:    minimum 8, maximum 167
focus:  window 0x4c0003d, revert to Parent
number of extensions:    18
    BIG-REQUESTS
    DOUBLE-BUFFER
    DPMS
    Extended-Visual-Information
    GLX
    MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
    MIT-SHM
    MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD
    RECORD
    SECURITY
    SHAPE
    SYNC                 <------------ Right here ;-)
    TOG-CUP
    XC-MISC
    XIE
    XInputExtension
    XTEST
    XiG-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD
[...]

> >> ESD has a head start here, a brave soul is reimplementing it in Java, on
> >> top of the Java Sound API. Search around on freshmeat, you'll find it
> >> there.
> >
> >	A Java sound server?  Interesting...  Is a Java Xserver far
> >behind? ;-)
> 
> Behind? I think it's ahead :-) ... How about this one: WeirdX
> ( http://www.jcraft.com/weirdx/ )
> 
> Haven't tried it yet, but might be promising?
> 

	Wow.  That's just... Wierd! ;-)  



-- 
Jon Trulson    work: mailto:jon at xig.com, home: mailto:jon at radscan.com
Xi Graphics, Inc.  http://www.xig.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <stddisclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.



From rodgers at nlm.nih.gov  Fri Sep 15 11:56:21 2000
From: rodgers at nlm.nih.gov (R. P. Channing Rodgers, M.D.)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:56:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
Message-ID: <200009151756.NAA22160@billings.nlm.nih.gov>


Gosh, if someone is going to go to all the trouble to slog through
the code, it would seem to be a good idea to go the extra mile and
write the (currently non-existent) document mentioned below while the
code fucntinality is still fresh in the mind.  It would be a terrific
contribution toward making NAS  useful for longer and on more OSes.

On a different note, we will soon be posting our installation notes
for the Solaris 2.6/gcc platform, which we hope will be helpful to
others...

Cheerio, Rick Rodgers

> From owner-nas at radscan.com Thu Sep 14 23:43:15 2000
> X-Authentication-Warning: nova.radscan.com: majordomo set sender to owner-nas at radscan.com using -f
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:28:12 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Jon Trulson <jon at radscan.com>
> X-Sender: jon at nova
> Reply-To: jon at radscan.com
> To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?= <knan at mo.himolde.no>
> cc: Arek Stegienko <harry.muscle at usa.net>, nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
> Sender: owner-nas at radscan.com
> 
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:46:59 +0200 (CEST)
> > From: Erik Inge Bols? <knan at mo.himolde.no>
> > To: Arek Stegienko <harry.muscle at usa.net>
> > Cc: nas at radscan.com
> > Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> [...]
> 
> > >etc.  I know that there's a protocol.txt file distributed with the
> > >current version of NAS, but I was hoping there's something simpler.  A
> > >simplified look at exactly what goes on from the point where the client
> > >tries to connect to the point where it starts to stream the audio
> > >info. 
> > 
> > You're not the only one that would like something like that to exist. The
> > protocol.txt explains only data types, not the connection procedure or
> > what is sent when. As I'm considering writing a NAS server for AmigaOS
> > from scratch, not necessarily in C even, when some software upgrades and a
> > big fat rom kernel reference manual finally arrives, this would help my
> > efforts as well.
> > 
> 
> 	Unfortunately there is no such document... The ones who could've
> written it (the original authors) don't seem to be around anymore.  As
> they suggest in the README 'use the source'.  Sorry I can't offer anymore
> than that.  You will probably just have to slug through the server code.  
> It's modeled on the X11 display server, so if you are familiar with that,
> then this shouldn't be too hard ;-)  I suspect that alot of people would
> like to see a windows port...
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
> ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
> PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
> #include <std/disclaimer.h>
> You talk like a Ferengi.
> 
> 
> 


From knan at mo.himolde.no  Sat Sep 16 09:26:42 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:26:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] QT 2.2 & NAS...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009161709180.30822-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

Greets!

I just made a weird discovery... QT, it seems, has an API for playing
sounds, as well as the expected widgets. In the X11 version, the
underlying API is - NAS!

(You'll need to enable it explicitly when compiling,
though.. ./configure -system-nas-sound )

I don't know when the QSound and QAuServer classes was added to the Qt
API, but the file was created 17. january 2000, and is included in the
recent Qt 2.2 release. On the other platforms Qt supports, other
underlying API's are used, of course. (src/kernel/qsound*, for those that
want to take a look)

But I find their exclusive use of NAS on X11 platforms encouraging. Would
you please add this info to the links page, Jon?
(http://www.trolltech.com/products/download/freelicense/qtfree-dl.html)

The World Domination Plan (TM) is on track :-)

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



From jon at radscan.com  Sat Sep 16 14:21:07 2000
From: jon at radscan.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:21:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] QT 2.2 & NAS...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009161709180.30822-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.4.21.0009161409350.4543-100000@nova>

On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, Erik Inge Bols? wrote:

> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:26:42 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Erik Inge Bols? <knan at mo.himolde.no>
> To: nas at radscan.com
> Subject: [nas] QT 2.2 & NAS...
> 
[...]
> I don't know when the QSound and QAuServer classes was added to the Qt
> API, but the file was created 17. january 2000, and is included in the
> recent Qt 2.2 release. On the other platforms Qt supports, other
> underlying API's are used, of course. (src/kernel/qsound*, for those
> that want to take a look)
> 

	I did a search on NAS at their site... it was started around May
1999 I think.  Though at the time NAS was 1.2p5, and he was having
trouble.

> But I find their exclusive use of NAS on X11 platforms encouraging.
> Would you please add this info to the links page, Jon?
> (http://www.trolltech.com/products/download/freelicense/qtfree-dl.html)
> 

	Done.  Thanks!

> The World Domination Plan (TM) is on track :-)
> 

	Are we still having our next meeting at the usual secret mountain
hideaway?


-- 
Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.




From knan at mo.himolde.no  Sat Sep 16 14:45:52 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:45:52 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] libaudiooss 0.9.5
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009162238210.1162-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

Greets. The time has come for yet another minor release of libaudiooss -
the highlight of this 0.9.5 release is that now sox and its frontends -
like "play" - work, eliminating a major source of confusion to new users
:-)

0.9.3 and 0.9.4 only fixed rather minor bugs. (Including the developer's
disease: thinking everyone has as updated a build environment as himself)

Download at the usual spot: http://www.mo.himolde.no/~knan/linux.html

Plans for the near future, barring bothersome intrusions like work and
studies, include recording support - keep in touch :)

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



From drichard at largo.com  Mon Sep 18 13:25:35 2000
From: drichard at largo.com (Dave Richards)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:25:35 -0400
Subject: [nas] NAS on WinCenter
Message-ID: <s9c63417.031@largo.com>

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Name: not available
URL: <http://radscan.com/pipermail/nas/attachments/20000918/4e5804b9/attachment.ksh>

From toy at rtp.ericsson.se  Thu Sep 21 14:21:22 2000
From: toy at rtp.ericsson.se (Raymond Toy)
Date: 21 Sep 2000 16:21:22 -0400
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: Jon Trulson's message of "Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:59:01 -0600 (MDT)"
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009150930300.5371-100000@landru.xig.com>
Message-ID: <4ng0mt5we5.fsf@edgedsp4.rtp.ericsson.se>

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon Trulson <jon at xig.com> writes:

    >> > 
    >> >         If the Xfree server and X11 environment could be ported to winxx,
    >> 
    >> According to http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/xfree/ it has *already*
    >> been done.
    >> 

    Jon> 	Well, then that makes the job quite a bit easier I would think.  
    Jon> Has anybody tried it?  Does it work well?  I notice the libs and
    Jon> environment are supposedly there.  This framework should greatly aid a
    Jon> port of a NAS server to windows.

Are we talking about NAS on native windows or NAS on windows via
cygwin?

In the latter case, NAS used to build just fine with cygwin 19.1.
Just configure and build like any Unix system.  Of course, there are
complaints about the server not being built, but the resulting
libraries and programs work just fine.  I was even able to get XEmacs
built with NAS and have XEmacs on NT pop up a display on my Sun
workstation and have all of the expected sounds come out of my Sun
box.  Cool!

Unfortunately, with cygwin 20 and later, I haven't been able to do
this.  Something about building the libraries has changed so that I
can't build the libraries.

I really miss that....

Ray


From jon at xig.com  Thu Sep 21 15:17:28 2000
From: jon at xig.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:17:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <4ng0mt5we5.fsf@edgedsp4.rtp.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009211515570.14376-100000@landru.xig.com>

On 21 Sep 2000, Raymond Toy wrote:

> Date: 21 Sep 2000 16:21:22 -0400
> From: Raymond Toy <toy at rtp.ericsson.se>
> To: Jon Trulson <jon at xig.com>
> Cc: Michel Bardiaux <mbardiaux at peaktime.be>, jon at radscan.com, nas at radscan.com
> Subject: Re: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
> 
> >>>>> "Jon" == Jon Trulson <jon at xig.com> writes:
> 
[...]

> 
> Are we talking about NAS on native windows or NAS on windows via
> cygwin?
> 
> In the latter case, NAS used to build just fine with cygwin 19.1.
> Just configure and build like any Unix system.  Of course, there are
> complaints about the server not being built, but the resulting
> libraries and programs work just fine.  I was even able to get XEmacs
> built with NAS and have XEmacs on NT pop up a display on my Sun
> workstation and have all of the expected sounds come out of my Sun
> box.  Cool!
> 
> Unfortunately, with cygwin 20 and later, I haven't been able to do
> this.  Something about building the libraries has changed so that I
> can't build the libraries.
> 

	Something in NAS? or something in cygwin?  I don't know windos,
but libraries are pretty much the same all over aren't they?


-- 
Jon Trulson    work: mailto:jon at xig.com, home: mailto:jon at radscan.com
Xi Graphics, Inc.  http://www.xig.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <stddisclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.



From toy at rtp.ericsson.se  Thu Sep 21 15:25:25 2000
From: toy at rtp.ericsson.se (Raymond Toy)
Date: 21 Sep 2000 17:25:25 -0400
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: Jon Trulson's message of "Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:17:28 -0600 (MDT)"
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0009211515570.14376-100000@landru.xig.com>
Message-ID: <4nbsxh5tfe.fsf@edgedsp4.rtp.ericsson.se>

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon Trulson <jon at xig.com> writes:

    Jon> 	Something in NAS? or something in cygwin?  I don't know windos,
    Jon> but libraries are pretty much the same all over aren't they?

I'm not sure.  The xmkmf stuff has some kind of support for Windows
and tells how to build a library.  This doesn't quite seem to work.
However, the support for building libraries depends on something thing
in NAS.  I think it has to do with exported variables or something
like that.

Sorry, this is so vague.  I did this about a year ago, it didn't work,
and I didn't know enough about cygwin to do anything with it.

If someone's interested, they'll just have to try it themselves and
see.  Preferably someone who knows how to build shared libraries with
cygwin.  :-)

Ray


From jon at radscan.com  Thu Sep 21 19:51:19 2000
From: jon at radscan.com (Jon Trulson)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:51:19 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [nas] Writing Win9X NAS Server
In-Reply-To: <4nbsxh5tfe.fsf@edgedsp4.rtp.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.4.21.0009211949460.13442-100000@nova>

On 21 Sep 2000, Raymond Toy wrote:

> Date: 21 Sep 2000 17:25:25 -0400
> From: Raymond Toy <toy at rtp.ericsson.se>
[...]

> and tells how to build a library.  This doesn't quite seem to work.
> However, the support for building libraries depends on something thing
> in NAS.  I think it has to do with exported variables or something
> like that.
> 
> Sorry, this is so vague.  I did this about a year ago, it didn't work,
> and I didn't know enough about cygwin to do anything with it.
> 

	Ahh, I've heard of some implementations that require that you
explicitly specify the symbols to export from a shared library... Wonder
if it's something like that.  Hmm.  Any Windows people out know?

> If someone's interested, they'll just have to try it themselves and
> see.  Preferably someone who knows how to build shared libraries with
> cygwin.  :-)
> 

	Aye. ;-)


-- 
Jon Trulson    mailto:jon at radscan.com
ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962
PGP keys at http://radscan.com/~jon/PGPKeys.txt
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
You talk like a Ferengi.




From knan at mo.himolde.no  Sun Sep 24 12:03:19 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:03:19 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] audiooss 0.9.7
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009242002020.26524-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

Hello, all.

I've just uploaded a new version of audiooss - and if I may say so, it is
really nice :) ... Almost all of my outstanding annoyances with it was
fixed now. (I suddenly understood some of the logic behind the NAS output
part, and thus fixed a few flaws :)

- Flash plugin works, freeamp works, alsaplayer works.
- No more annoying pauses in output with realplayer and plaympeg. Apart
from sound lagging a second or three behind, watching music videos
remotely is quite pleasant now :)

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet




From knan at mo.himolde.no  Sun Sep 24 19:02:19 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 03:02:19 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] audiooss 0.9.8
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009250257150.29515-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

All right, after some more testing of realplayer streams I've gotten rid
of the pauses in _all_ cases now, I believe. 11 khz streams were choppy,
22 & 44 were not, thus I didn't notice at first :) Fixed in 0.9.8,
downloadable from the usual place.

http://www.mo.himolde.no/~knan/linux.html

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



From knan at mo.himolde.no  Tue Sep 26 20:41:57 2000
From: knan at mo.himolde.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Inge_Bols=F8?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:41:57 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [nas] audiooss 0.9.9
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009270430310.1241-100000@yme.mo.himolde.no>

Well then. AudioOSS 0.9.9 is out - and I'm running out of easy cases to
fix. "cat argh.au > /dev/audio" still does not work, but that would
involve very black magic to fix. "bufplay" does weird things and refuse to
work so far.

I accidentally broke amp around 0.9.4 or so, now it should work
again. Some fixes to my wrapper select() function did the trick.

Winamp running under Wine had some problems outputting non-choppy sound -
and fixing the issue would break mikmod, and perhaps others. So a
AUDIOOSS_WINE_HACK environment variable was added as a hopefully temporary
workaround - set the variable to enable the workaround. With it, winamp
under wine works as well as any other MP3 player...

So, perhaps recording next? Or portability - any interested Weird Unix
Variant gurus around that could give it a try and/or give me shell access
to a non-Linux system for testing?

--
Erik I. Bols? | email: <knan at mo.himolde.no>
              | irc: Knan / #linux.no @ Undernet



